09 November, 2011

Insights in reducing pack weight:





Why to lighten your pack has been, and will be, a thing of much debate.  Ultimately there are many reasons and all are based on your needs - not someone else's.  It’s a personal thing.  The total weight is down to you and you alone.    Don't believe the hype that you're missing out because you're carrying seven kilos instead of five.  

  • Shelter
  • Pack
  • Sleeping 


Maybe you need to do a national trail in less time due to limited holidays.  So lightening the pack helps to reduce the burden on long days and getting those miles done.

Maybe like many you are fed up with aching shoulders and being tired from heavy loads.  

For me the reason is simple.  I was on a day walk one day in the Lake District.  I met some backpackers who had been out wild camping.  In that moment  I saw that they were free.  Free to enjoy the mountains for the entire day.  Not needing to get back to a car or bed and breakfast for the night.  Their freedom allowed them to enjoy the sun setting, the sound of the stream babbling in the night, camped next to it.    


So I took up backpacking.  I had a no idea. The man in the shop told me what I needed.  I learnt fast as soon as I started walking in the mountains.  My shoulders ached and my feet hurt.  I still loved it.  Being out there, being free.  

I started ditching kit and replacing it with lighter kit, or just doing without, and have carried on ever since.  Being less tired at camp means I enjoy the sunset more as I don’t want to fall asleep from being so knackered from hauling heavy loads uphill all day. 

Going lighter is an evolution of my backpacking style.   I have walked with a big heavy pack and with a light small pack,  carrying all I need to wild camp out in the hills.  I always find it’s more enjoyable with a lighter pack - yet the views are unchanged.  I enjoy the outdoors, but like it more with less on my back.

So I thought I would share some insights I have learnt about backpacking and going lighter.  I will share more in the coming months.


Part I

It starts with the truth - you carry it all


I read a review recently about some outdoor clothing. The writer said that the weight of the clothing was not an issue, as you are wearing it.


I suggest that this thinking is wrong thinking in terms of backpacking.  Go put on a stone in weight and go for a walk.  Then lose it and do the same walk.  I bet you will put less strain on your body, finding it easier as well.  You carry everything step by step.  Add a pass or a mountain in and you lift you and everything on you,  step by step, uphill.


To start working out where to reduce your carried weight, calculate the total weight of items worn and carried.  Don't worry about food and water at this point as they are variable amounts.


Use an Excel spread sheet and add it all in there.  Get the scales out and see the truth: clothing worn, kit carried.  That is where you start from.  Not the base pack weight, which on paper reads light - as you have decided you're wearing a base layer, fleece, waterproof top, trousers, hat and gloves...  Don't kid yourself.   You're the one who will carry it all.  


Wisdom: "It is rather a problem deciding what you must take and what you can leave behind, but it is amazingly simplified when you know you have to carry it all yourself"  


Bill Tilman


Don't chase labels


It seems the height of bragging to read those who say they go ultra-light poking fun at what they see as the traditional backpacker with 70L packs and big boots.


I recall walking over the highest mountains in the UK with big loads.  I was not unable, I don't recall any UL backpacker gliding past me, ticking summit after summit off as they had so light a load that it was effortless?  The sunsets looked as good as they do now carrying less. I had fun; also I learnt what I did not need to take next time.


So let's ask the question: What do I need for my next backpacking trip?  Well, it all depends on the goal you have.  If it's a 2,700 mile through hike, or the Pennine way - I would suggest durability is a consideration.  So a Dyneema material pack would be durable and light.   


I rate my Paramo waterproof top.  It is not very lightweight - yet its performance, come the colder months, makes it my preferred top over any lighter options. Function wins here every time.


For me the rule is function over weight - plus durability. Getting the lightest, most functional, durable bit of kit for my needs is the aim every time for me now, and this is how I choose kit for any particular walk.  


Fortunately light kit is often durable kit.  Dyneema and Cuben fiber are both light and durable.  


Driducks waterproofs are very light, but not durable.  But if it is unlikely to rain much on your trip they might be perfect, and meet the function/ durability criteria for that trip - an example of  very light kit that can work.  My lightest waterproof top is 287g in weight - but the RAB demand is durable (eVent), functional, and been used on 1200 mile through hikes by others with no issues. 


If you are going to backpack in a dry, arid area you might need a light tarp and to carry a 3L hydration bladder - as water re-filling spots are fewer, and the light tarp is all that is needed to keep the elements at bay while sleeping.


In a wetter area like the Lake District a pyramid shelter with a door would offer more protection from rain in camp; a 500ml water bottle is fine as you can top up on water easily - as there is plenty of it around.  


One size does not fit all.  Sometimes the heavier kit item offers more in terms warmth and protection for a trip than the lightest item.  


Maybe that axe for bush craft with a remote forest as part of a trip is needed.  Why do we need to restricted by pre determined weight limits set by others?


Think about your needs from kit for the trip,  and what you want it to do.  If I were going to a remote wilderness area, I would most likely take a multi fuel stove like a Trail Design Sidewinder  Ti-Tri.  Meths, esbit and wood burning would allow me to cook, and the risk of failing is minimal vs a gas stove in a remote area.  Weight is not the prime consideration in this area for me.  Yet the Sidewinder is still very light.  Again, the point is function first. 


My main function/performance requirement in a shelter in the UK is wind resistance.  Weight is next. My main choice is a MLD Trailstar.  It's superb in the wind.  It's still light.  I could go lighter with other shelters, but it's hard to beat the weight, space and wind resistance combination of the Trailstar.


But I also sometimes need a door and small footprint, and for this use another shelter.  I am not fixed with 'the lightest is always right'.


Ask, always: what function do I need kit to perform - before looking at its weight, as a rule of thumb - then get the lightest and most durable item of kit that will meet that requirement for you.  So, if your final kit selection for a trip puts you 700g above a UL base weight, don't worry.  Kit needs and requirements before labels and weight limits set by someone else, every time. 


Also, make sure your light rucksack is comfortable.  Function of a pack is to carry the load and be comfortable.  Just because it's light does not mean it's any good.    


So don't assume you are meant to achieve a 4.5kg base pack weight.  Remember point number one:  you carry it all.  


Info: Dyneema Gridstop used in ultra light packs is a 9% Dyneema of a nylon rip stop blend. A  210d Cordura would be as abrasion resistent. 


Learn what not to bring next time


I carried a rubber mallet on my first backpacking trip.  I chucked it in a bin, passing through a Lake District village.  I learnt quickly that I did not need it.  


It took a while longer to learn that kit did not make me safe.  I have written in the past that skill is the lightest item we carry, along with knowledge.  If I were to go to a remote wilderness area, fire-lighting would be a skill I would master before going.  Food, warmth, shelter are requirements for surviving.   Being able to fashion them in a survival situation in a remote area would be a must-have skill.  


Kit helps in being safe, but in itself does not make us safe.   Mountain rescue teams have recovered bodies of walkers with the ice axe that could have stopped their fall still strapped to their rucksack.  When it should have been in their hands crossing the snow field, ready to arrest a fall.


Skill is the big part of what we need to bring to the hills and wilderness.


Ask, what you do not need to bring in terms of kit?  What can you leave behind?


I learnt that trail shoes dry fast and so I don't need spare river crossing shoes.  


I learnt that I only need one pair of trousers for my walking trips in Scotland.  I left the spare pair at home years ago.


I learnt that all my light kit for 3 season hiking, and five days' food, fits in a 46L pack  - I left my 70L pack at home again a long time ago for trips outside of winter. 


I learnt that light eVent waterproofs work as well as heavyweight ones outside of a winter storm and the colder months. So I leave my Paramo top behind in the summer.  


Laying kit out on the floor when you get home and deciding what was not needed can work.  But what if the trip was a dry warm one and the next time it's cold and damp?  Maybe you learnt nothing, and left behind something you needed on the next trip?.  


Learn over varied terrain and weather.  Learn from overnight trips and multi-day trips, and once you have learnt, apply it to that big walk across Scotland you have been working towards.  That way you will know what combination of clothing will keep you warm and what won't.  Learn on the trail and use books as an addition to the learning.  Right now I am reading some good 'lighten-up' books.  


Maybe that author only hikes in summer.  Maybe they only hike in warm dry areas.  Who knows - but you are the one who will be cold and miserable if you get it wrong.  


Truth: anyone can be comfortable and warm for a night on an overnight trip.  Do it on a multi-night trip with varied terrain and weather and it's another matter.  

Don't be a fool


Learn from others and save time and money.  I am currently reading some new books on ultra-light backpacking.   


I don't subscribe to all I am reading.  Yet within the pages I find something I can use that fits the walking and areas I go to.  


Read books, blogs and forums and learn from others.  Forums have a high concentration of knowledgeable people.  Subscribe to Backpacking Light (it still does light, yet you might think it was only SUL) and ask on the forums there the questions you might have.  


On knowledge: if the author only ever goes into the woods for a night but writes like an expert on lightweight and UL travel, it might be wise to cross-reference their views with someone who does longer, multi-day walks.  A night in the woods will not teach or put pressure on a person like a multi-day trip with varied terrain does.


Tip: Best lightweight travel tips are found in books about trips.  Long Trek Home for example has a lot of insights into lightweight travel.  Yet it's not about gear.  


Define your comfort


So what is comfort?  To some, a bit of bubble wrap in a tent to sleep on during a mountain marathon event.  To others, a down-filled full length sleeping mattress.  


Comfort and backpacking always seems to come down to sleeping.  What about warmth and an espresso?


Hamish Brown did not use a sleeping mat on his Munros trip.  He thought they were bulky and not needed.  He defined his comfort level.  Ultimately, your comfort needs will affect your pack-weight.  Consider the difference between a three-quarter length air mat and using other kit to insulate your legs from the cold ground, instead of taking that full-length mat.


Glen Van Peski uses a thin foam mat and tailbone cutout addition and this helps keep his pack-weight low.  You need to decide if this is for you.  Comfort is a personal thing.


Do I need a bowl to eat from, and a spare fork?  I only recently took a pillow as I found one that weighs 49g.  I stuff spare clothing into it and it does the job.   I can live with that.  It is that  mind set that we should have.  In this case I am happy as I only have a pack liner and stuff sack for my food and a ditty bag now. Those who only do one or two night out trips will say it's fine to take this, or that.  Well, my view is: go do a 15 day walk and see if you still think it's alright to take this, or that, as they won't add a lot to your pack weight.  


Yet we need comfort.  It's this balance that only you can decide is right for you.


Multi-day trips will put more stress on your body. Ultimately, day after day can be tiring, and come day four you want to ensure that your kit has some comfort to help you be able to sleep well and recover - but not so much extra 'just in case' kit that you're carrying more than you need, so adding more exertion than you need, each day, while you're working hard on the walk.


My final point on comfort is, find the sweet spot where you have a comfy night's sleep, are warm, and have some luxury like an iPod.  But draw a line somewhere over what you will compromise on - or your pack-weight will still be high.  


Example: in May on a TGO Challenge you decide that your 580g sleeping bag won't keep you warm when it's down to zero, or just below.   So your need for comfort when sleeping means you take a really warm winter weight down jacket (agreed, they are handy) - when a light down jacket would do, and use 450g insulated trousers.  Are insulated trousers for camp needed when its only likely to get to zero on the odd night?  In fact, a 840g RAB Neutrino 400 sleeping bag would keep you warm to zero and without the insulated trousers - your comfort need is met and the kit total weight is lighter.  


Adding some comfort is what some call the sensible side of light.  Others just have a different view; each to his, or her own.  Ultimately, you're meant to enjoy it.  If you're not, do something about it!


My comfort: I like an air/foam sleeping mat, warm light insulating jacket, and iPod (shuffle in summer, iPod touch in winter for those long dark nights with a movie) and lots of coffee on a trip.  


Attack the biggest weight items


Losing weight from our kit is not hard.  Biggest areas are:
I am not going to list lots of kit you should consider here  Why?  Well, remember function over weight - it's something I think is often overlooked by lightweight backpackers.  


You decide your function needs.  Then work out what kit meets that.


Outside of winter and colder months I use a light waterproof.  Waterproofs are another big area where you can save weight for those long summer walks.  A light waterproof meets my need then.  


Packs, I always believe, should be no more than 10% of the total maximum load carried.   A 1.5kg pack will be a massive weight-saving step down from a 70L pack that is 3KG.  A 600g one, even better, if it meets your needs. 


But let's get the the heart of this area.  There are a lot of rules about the big three: shelter, pack and sleeping.  


There is the one that says 3x3 - three items for nine pounds total, or 4,082 kg in metric.


Then there is the 2x3 rule for UL hikers which is six pounds total, or 2,721 kg in metric weights.


Who made this rule up?  What if your walk is going to mean hauling ten days' food, some rope and crampons for a glacier crossing?  You might need a heavier rucksack with a frame to help support the load then.


One the best books on lightweight backpacking I have read is Smarter Backpacking by Jorgen Johansson.


Jorgen does not run on about this pack - or that stove.  He sticks to a well put line of argument about why going light is good, and how you will benefit from it.


He has a rule. The 343 rule (note there are a lot of rules it seems for UL and light weight backpacking.)


Jorgens rule is on track, logic-wise, for me.  He states that the pack, shelter and sleeping bag/quilt and sleeping pad/air mat (I do like the fact he adds sleeping pad in as well) should not exceed 3kg or, in old money or the USA, 6.6 pounds (6.5 in the book)


So now we have (I use metric) 3, 4 and 2.7 kilo.   Phew, where do we aim?.


Jorgen is right in principle - I like his rule as an approximate goal.  I would say 3kg is a good goal - but under 4kg is very doable and a better starting point for those looking to go lighter.


One flaw with Jorgen's rule is that he often uses trekking poles to hold his shelter up - yet does not add these to the weight.   You don't need trekking poles, but I rate them - my current ones are not light but I like them a lot ( aluminium Pacer Poles) and their function is superb. 


So my last trip 343 rule weight without trekking poles was:


MLD Prophet pack              462g
MLD quilt                              613g
MLD SoloMid                       419g
Oookworks net inner           309g
POE Ether elite Air pad      395g
8mm foam mat                     104g
                                             2302g


Well within the rule of 343,  but I needed trekking poles to pitch the shelter.  They were 650g.


A total - still in the rule - of 2952g  (no tent stakes in that list and if added = 3033g)


But:




add my shelter components (SoloMid) together on their own - remember they are seen as lightweight - and you get = 852g with stakes; but unlike a light tent, I need those trekking poles to pitch it - so a total weight of 1502g.  


Someone using a Akto tent and no trekking poles carries the same as me.  Sometimes that light shelter might not be the weight saving you thought.


Brings us back to function.  I get a lot of function from a Trailstar.  Hence why I use it. 


Don't rush out and think you save weight with some shelter combinations.  Decide what you want from it first, then decide.


I could use a light bivy and leave the ground bug inner at home or take a light groundsheet, but I will still be around 1.2kg, adding the trekking poles in.   


But as I use trekking poles and I am saving weight by choosing the single skin shelter route over a tent for my needs.   Make sure it works for you and you lose pack weight before making the switch.  


Winter kit weights are another issue.  Function is everything then as the risk is higher.  

I reckon there are a lot of rules already.  Jorgen's is the best one for me.  Aim to reduce the big three: pack, shelter and sleeping bag/quilt and sleeping pad/air mat.  




Get the big weight items down first and then fine tune from there.   Going light will allow you to feel fresher at the end of the day to enjoy the sunset.  It will allow you to be more agile on steep descents,  and to move faster when a storm hits.  It's not hard to get your pack weight down. 


All it takes is a bit planning and thought.


Tip: your sleeping bag is the biggest warmth-to-weight ratio item you have with you.  If you're cold in camp get in it, or wrap it around you while chatting to a mate.   I define camp, by the way.   You camp.  You sleep at camp.  So enjoy it. 


Ultimately get trip focused and not gear focused.  Gear is a means to an end.   

64 comments:

David Lintern said...

last 2 sentences say it all for me.

It takes alot of experience to put it all together, nice one Martin for sharing that.

DavidHine said...

Interesting post Martin. I was quite satisfied with where I was weight wise until last year. Then the packraft on board meant I wanted to trim that down further. With a few modifications during this year I'm happy with where I am again.

Chris Highcock said...

Great post Martin.  

ken Long said...

Good article Martin, there are so many people telling us what's "cool" in every area of life, the hills really should be some where to get away from it!

James Boulter said...

Nice article Martin.

Quote" It
seems the height of bragging to read those who say they go
ultra-light poking fun at what they see as the traditional backpacker
with 70L packs and big boots".   I have yet to meet an Ultra lightweight backpacker in the hills Martin, possibly too busy doing a spreadsheet listing all their lightweight gear?  I just come across lots of people enjoying the hills.I love a bit of gear I do but can honestly and happily say I have no idea what my pack has weighed this year.  To me it either feels 'right' or too heavy.  The most important thing being to get out and enjoy the hills.  Hike your own hike and walk your own walk.And just to say that I really enjoyed wearing my leather boots on my Far north trip a couple of weeks ago!  I better get my coat............

James Boulter said...

Looks like the formatting went funny on my last comment.  I did put paragraphs and everything in it.  Honest!

UK Wild Camping said...

Great read will help me when planning my next trip. Ditty bag love it ...

Geoff Edwards said...

That was a good read Martin, lots of interesting thoughts and tips.
I particularly like the comments about base weights the items that don’t get included, stuff sacks is another favourite!

Colin Griffiths said...

Well I'm not a wild camper Martin, but that is a very good post and one I've book marked for future reference, There's a lot of lessons there for me too.

Yeti said...

Great post. I'll have to reread it when I get home.

The last two sentences are so very true.

Nick Bramhall said...

An excellent post Martin. Your experience shines through and there are lots of useful insights here. Thanks for sharing.

It's funny - I'm hugely concious of weight throughout the whole preparation stage, but as soon as I shoulder my pack and set off into the hills any thought of spreadsheets and weight saving completely goes out of my mind. I'm aware that there are areas where I could save weight (pack and shelter being the most obvious) but at the moment I still feel I'm in the very early stages of learning my gear and my required comfort levels. Hopefully I'll get a couple of longer trips in next year and from there can go about determining my next steps.The best thing about the Super Ultra Lightweighters is that none of them include a camera in their gear list, but all have photos of the trips they have been on... It must be magic!

Nick Bramhall said...

That happens to me quite often James - once you have posted you should get an edit button below your reply. I find I have to edit back in the paragraphs a lot of the time...

terrybnd said...

Brilliant post Martin. Common sense on many many levels if you ask me. In some respects, with what I do now I gave up on 'lightweight' some time ago. In reality, I haven't. I endeavour to follow Jorgen's rule just like you namely because my video gear comes to about 6-7kg alone.


What I have consequently chased since is comfort. I want to have a comfortable pack on, comfortable weight, comfortable bed and so on. And in truth, the only bit of gear that has crept up in weight for me is my rucksack. Otherwise, I've about nailed it for me now - be it a 3 nighter or several nights.

Excellent post mate - and like I said, you speak common sense :)

Fraser said...

Some good insights here, sharing accumulated experience much better than writing a shopping list for n00bs. 

themuss1978 said...

Enjoyable read that sitting eating my bacon sarnie, I laughed with the rubber mallet I too made that mistake mind I kept it though lol its in my wardrobe collecting dust

AlanR said...

Hi Martin,
You have spent a lot of time and effort putting this post together and a worthy post it is. If only we had blogs years ago when i started my endeavors who knows where i might otherwise be today. 
I would like to add one issue which you havn't mentioned and which to me is just as big an issue as function, performance and durability and that is cost.
I can in no way keep changing my equipment just because a new 50gr sleeping bag or 200gr tent or something else comes out that is slightly better than what i currently have.
I have to balance it all, including cost. Tha'ts why you will sometimes find on my blog items of kit which are not mainstream backpacking gear but which will enhance my comfort for only a small cash layout.
I am not prying into your circumstances but how do you relate cost to your gear choices and decide when to change it?
Keep up the good work. Alan

Neil Lapping said...

Great post Martin. 
I particularly liked your point about ignoring the label. So often ultra light seems to be an excuse for gear manufacturers to produce ultra expensive and ultra perishable gear. I'm a big fan of using slightly heavier stuff which gets the job done properly and lasts a little longer. 
Cheers
Neil 

Martin Rye said...

Thanks David.  My views are based on the trips I have done.  I would be interested in your views as you have done some long walks.  

More days adds more stress on kit, and hence selection is going to be durability focused as much as weight focused. 

Martin Rye said...

When I met you David you were using a Akto and now a Trailstar.  I can understand.  Packraft, paddle and stuff adds to the load.  Again you decided your needs.  Interesting.  You should do a kit summary on your blog about packraft and kit needs.

Martin Rye said...

Thanks as alway Chris.  Hope you get out wild camping soon.

Martin Rye said...

Agree Ken and thanks.  Comments and feedback help spur me on to write and share more.  

Martin Rye said...

Disqus is flawed but spam is a past event for me since using it.  

Martin Rye said...

Formatting is an issue here James.  I see Blogger has spaced the post with big gaps in between lines.

UL hikers in the UK exists.  Some do go up a hill.  But walking the West Highland Way on the Challenge this year, big packs and boots seemed the norm.   The ULA gospel it seems to have a small congregation.

As I am a fan of your blog and like you I will send a spread sheet to you.  Go on add it all up.  See if there is another way :)   

But if it works there is no reason to lighten up.  Of you are happy and comfortable why change.  

As for me I seek and have got what I wanted - a light flexible UK focused system I like,.  As you said hike your own hike.   We all are different and seeking something for ourselves in the wilde lands.  

Kits role is to facilitate that.  

Martin Rye said...

UK, glad it helped.  Thanks for the follow and hope the blog is helpful and inspiring at times. 

Martin Rye said...

Stuff sacks add a fair bit weight Geoff.  Mine rucksack liner is 180g of superb waterprof protection.  A ditty bad and food bag are the rest.  But some take lots stuff sacks.  You carry it all so tate it I reckon.   Good comment and glad you liked it. 

I wondered what the response would be?.  Some might not like it and see it as anti lightweight.  yet I am saying go lighter with comfort and common sense. 

Martin Rye said...

I have said it before Colin you will get some fantastic sunrise and sunset shots camping high.  Give it a go.  Thanks as always for commenting. 

Martin Rye said...

Best kit list sheet I have is from Phil Turner.  He sent it to me.  It has total worn and carried.  Its a good one.   I can send it to you.  Its the one on the blog I use before a walk now.

I do totals and think they help in the planning of trips.

You will learn what is right on the bigger trips.  I doubt you will struggle.  

Phil had camera on his and its noticeable that camera kit does not get a mention sometimes. 

Martin Rye said...

Backpacking is simple and fun Terry as you know.   Jorgens rule is a guide.  But it needs to fit.  Your pack-weight is always varied based on film needs.  You decide and not someone else.  

Catch you soon.

Martin Rye said...

Hope it helped Fraser.  Lighting the pack I have learnt is more about planning. I have got it wrong many times.  I learnt that and think its good to share.  

Martin Rye said...

Themuss we have a common connection there I think. Bet you still had fun and learnt.   That is the point.  Learn and have fun.  

Martin Rye said...

I am all done with most big kit bits Alan.  Shelters are sorted.  Clothing is good.  Do need a 55L pack for a trip next year.  Lot food carried at one point on that trip.

But your right.  it can become chasing a never ending dream.  Chase walks.  Covert maps and read trip reports before gear reviews is my advice to folks.  I like gear.  I buy it, and will do again.  

On cost.  I am not badly paid.  I also have small housing costs.  So I could, and have been abe to buy some good kit.   

But when to change kit.  My main drive has been to get a interchangeable kit selection together that suits me.  So a fortnights trip.  A TGO Challenge is my framework.  Kit that will work for me on that. Kit needs to work and not fail me.  I had a rucksack fail on the Pennine Way.  I hate kit being useless on a big walk. 

So any changes work around that. Trailstar was a Xmas present from my wife.  I chose it - she paid.  I also sold  some old kit on. Scarp for example, and invested the money back into kit.  MLD quilt and SoloMid.  So kit can be a working pot that needs a small top up to upgrade and change the dynamic of the kit pool.  

Martin Rye said...

Neil agree.  Take a Golite Jam.  Superb lightweight pack. Near a kilo (which is light) in weight - but superb pack and you can get them for as little as, £65.  

Good durable kit is out there.  My Gorila pack, even with its flaws is an example of good durable kit that is light.  Yes there is lighter packs, but I doubt they carry any better.  

Bang on with "I'm a big fan of using slightly heavier stuff which gets the job done properly and lasts a little longer."

Nick Bramhall said...

Thanks for the offer Martin but I'm happy with the spreadsheet I am using at the moment - see an example PDF output here: http://www.invertedworld.co.uk/docs/wild-camping-kit-oct-2011.pdf It definitely makes sense to try and account for everything, including worn/carried items.

Peter Nylund said...

Great post. Jörgens book was really influential for me when it was published in Swedish some four years ago. Though I had started to reduce my gear before that, the book really presented good arguments and reasons.

I think one aspect is often forgotten when discussing light or ultralight gear: In addition to function, weight and durability, there is the question of price. Is it worth to pay a lot of extra money for the latest carbon fiber reinforced Cuben or whatever to save a few more grams.

The last two sentences are very important. Don't let gear, or imagined lack thereof, prevent you from getting out.

Martin Rye said...

Hi Peter.  I totally agree.  I did not get the cubern version of the SoloMid as its not worth the extra.  Its light as it is.  I wont get the cuben Trailstar either. 

I like Dyneema packs, as they last.  

Jorgen puts a well put case and the book is timeless as it not full of gear.  

I will do some more stuff on this subject.  It will again be common sense approach.  

One area I am after some kit is bike stuff BTW.  I do own and ride a mountain bike at times.  I also want to do some nights out riding.  Sadly no nice shelters to sleep in and have  a warm fire for me.  

Mike fae Dundee said...

Good post Martin.
The Prophet is my favourite pack. :)
Comfort 1st, 2nd and last.
Sometimes it takes folk a while to realise how little they really need to be comfortable.
I was a 'foam mat man' for years, but a recent operation left me needing more cushioning under my hips. I'm carrying a heavier mat now.
Oh the shame! :)

Martin Rye said...

I nearly sold my Prophet Mike.  Glad I did not.  Used it wrong.  Now I create a internal frame with a roll mat it works well.  
I reckon a roll mat and six section Z-lite works ok, but I like an air pad.  Agree you dont need a lot to be comfy, but comfort is nice. 

No shame in needing more comfort.  I use a pillow now.  Its a age thing maybe.  

Hope your healing well after the operation.

Appreciate the input and thanks.

alan.sloman said...

It's interesting looking back over the years to see what I carried 40 years ago on the Pennine Way and what I carry these days. In  terms of weight, I actually carried slightly less then than I do now but I was soaked to the skin back then in bad weather all too often.

As materials have become lighter and stronger the advantages are there to be had, but what I have found is that I am using these modern materials for better protection from the elements and so the weight has remained fairly stable as I am carrying more gear to be comfortable on long trips.

The only real area where I have made drastic changes is footwear: I used to wear big leather boots, thick socks and gaiters, but now I wear unlined trainers and thinner socks. Ta for that,  by the way! For cold wet snow though, it's back to a lined fabric boot - again, for comfort and warmth.

It *is* all about being comfortable - with what you wear day after day on a long walk, and how much you feel able or want to carry.

I should stress that I am pleased that the "ultralighters" are out there: It means that they are in the vanguard in trying to develop new materials that eventually filter down to me to help me reduce my own packweight.

Great post fella: Thank you.

  

Jörgen Johansson said...

Wise and eloquent. You could write a book of your own, although I must say that your appreciation of mine has made my day :-)

On the issue of in which column the weight of the hiking poles should be added I think it is a matter of choice. You just have to keep track of which track you pick, so to speak. I prefer not to add them to the pack weight because I seldom carry them in my pack. Also, I always carry them for another purpose than shelter support, even when I carry a shelter that has poles. That is, if I carry an Akto with poles it will in fact weigh one kilo more than my GG The One on my back. And I will still use my hiking poles as hiking poles in spite of carrying an Akto. That is the logic that suited me best while thinking the thing through.

However the point you are making is interesting, since it puts the finger on some logical traps that are easy to fall into. For instance there is no doubt that a really light tarp is the lightest shelter available. However, I find it is seldom possible to use a tarp without some bug protection, and if you want something less spartan than a headnet you will find that the tarp-net combo might weigh more than a number of tarptents.

Martin Rye said...

Thanks Jorgen.  I do save with poles as I have used them for 15 years now.   So to me they are essential and kit choices I make save weight.  Others who dont use poles might jump in thinking they save weight - as you point out in your comment and fall into a trap that saves them nothing.  

GG One is a shelter I would like to try out.   Your tarp point hopefully will be insightful to those going that route.  My Trailstar has limits without a bug inner.  Tarptents can be a very good option for bug season.  One to consider.  

Thanks for the input and insight you have added here.  People should buy that book.  Its good.  

Martin Rye said...

ULA  boys and girls do help push the limits and development of gear Alan.  

One point.  Your pack is smaller now.  You use 50L packs mostly.  Smaller, near your centre of gravity.  Better stability.  All good benefits of going light and compact kit.  Add the rather fine yellow grip to rocks like limpet shoes and your walking must be a more enjoyable experience.

I have very light gaiters.  I showed up on a wee very strict Bed and Breakfast ladies door once,  after a few days walking.  I had not worn gaiters and got covered in mud (as you do).

She said I looked like the bog, and smelt of the bog.  I managed to charm her to let me stay.

I pack gaiters now.  They are so light its no hard.  At 78g for them I aint breaking my back.

It was a nice B&B by the way. 

Mike fae Dundee said...

Packing a frameless pack takes more thought than a framed pack. I find a properly packed frameless pack the most comfortable. No rigid frame to poke you in the back. Obviously you don't want to go beyond the packs carrying limits.
I think your carrying 'style' makes a difference to how you get on with frameless packs. I prefer to carry the weight on my shoulders, and often don't use a hipbelt.

Markswalkingblog said...

Martin, great post and your experience shows through.
 Still tweaking my kit and in some ways my gear is very different from yours and in other ways it is not. By that I mean that my shelter and sleeping system is different, but the approach is that you have gear that works for you and that takes time to accumulate that knowledge and experience.
 Don't take gear just because it is lightest on the market, without understanding how it will work for you in the hills. So sometimes that means a slightly heavier bit of kit because you know it works.  I am still trying out footwear to get the best for me and it may not be as light as some people's selection. Hike your own hike if you are happy with what you have and hopefully you will find the gear that gives your functionality, durability and weighs less than what you are replacing it with :)

Martin Rye said...

Mark we all seek something that works for us.  I sometimes question people why they go hill walking?

Enjoy the views, being ou there seems the norm. So when its comes to backpacking they seem to then be focused on their pack-weight before the views and trip to come.  Some basic lighting up planning, and principles will free them to just get out there.   343 is a good one. Decide the tent , etc that works for you and try to get to that - then tweak the little things over time is my advice to anyone.  

Your comment is good.  Understanding the light  stove that boils 500ml of water in the garage with 20ml of meths,  wont do that on a hill, is a lesson that  many only learn on the hill.   Lots things hailed as the in thing to have dont always work on the hill as you hoped.  

Great comment and thanks.

Robin said...

Hi Martin

Only just caught up with this as I've been away. Lots of common sense. While going lighter is the aim, the trade off with comfort and function is the key. It's not difficult to get down to a sensible weight. I don't like the aggressive SUL proseltysing. It doesn't work for everyone. If people want to use a tarp etc, that's fine by me, but it irritates me when some members of the blogging community suggest that to use anything else is some kind of betrayal. Hike your own hike is what I say. It's always interesting see what others use and if it might work for you, but there's no one-size-fits-all answer. Well done for articulating it. As you say, gear is only a means to an end.

Martin Rye said...

The reaction to this post has shown there is a lot of folks thinking just like you Robin.  They want a lighter pack and to get out and enjoy the hills and moors. They also like a bit comfort, and there is the cost issue.  

Down to earth sensible backpacking.  You, and myself both use Gossamer Gear packs.  Not the most lightest packs, yet light - able to carry heavier loads, and function is there for us.  

I think the SUL blogs best message would be trip reports, showing multi day walks with SUL kit in the rain, and damp for two weeks.  Action speak louder than words.  I dont recall a blog post right now showing me that.  

Thanks Robin.  

James Butler said...

What an interesting and useful post.

As someone else has already said cost is an issue for lots of people when buying equipment.

One of my big bugbears is that it's unusual to see a gear review that explicitly addresses the cost of a specific product and whether it represents value for money or not. The main focus is always on weight/design/features and cost/value for money is an afterthought.

There is a excellent and very detailed review on the TGO site of a Primus titanium stove that says it is 'one of the best around' but it does even mention what the price is or whether it is competitive compared to similar products. There are many other examples over the net...

An Alpkit sleeping bag might only be 50% of the cost of a similar product made by Rab - is the extra worth it? What 'extra' do you get by paying for a major brand name? Is saving 100g on a waterproof worth the outlay for a new one when a newer and lighter model will be along next year anyway?

For me this is one of the big issues that consumers need to consider and gear reviewers need to address.

Nick (Hill Mad Man) said...

Wise words. I often come back from a trip and unpack looking at some items thinking "Why did I take that, I did not use it again." I will pack items thinking "just in case". It sometimes is too easy to put comfort over necessity. 

Great post!

Martin Rye said...

Cost is something even more relevant right now in economic hard times James, and thanks for keeping this point going here. 

I got into a side discussion on this issue.  Have a look at this:

http://walkwildscotland.wordpress.com/2011/11/11/backpacking-on-a-budget/#comment-34

I think we can all be wiser with our kit buys. Price, and durability is something people look for often.  I shall mention that in any kit reviews I do.  Price to.

Thoughtful comment James, and adds to the content here for people to use.  Thanks for that.

Martin Rye said...

Getting the balance right is down to learning on the hills Nick.  I hope this post helps, and I will do another sometime.  Keep at it - the pack-weight will I am sure be lighter, but still have those things that make the long winter wild camp nights fun still.

David Seoras said...

good post Martin, 343  was one of the first things I came across when looking at lightening up my load. The decision to lighten up came after carrying near 35kg for a 5 day trek. Never used to bother me carrying that much, with lots of 'just in case' items, but must be getting old as I really felt the strain after that trek.
One other point which hasn't been touched on yet is packability. I haven't really seen this discussed much anywhere, but to me function in an item comes first, then packability before weight and form. 

Neil Reid said...

Good Post, Martin. Always been a bit suspicious of folk that go all out to be lightweight, but your 'function first' approach is eminently sensible. However my last pack contained, amongst lots of other extra weight, contained a hammer, a scrubbing brush, two litres of bleach, handwashing gel, j-cloths and coal. Maintenance parties at bothies don't really lend themselves to ultra-lightweight packs! ;-)

Martin Rye said...

Bothy life needs fire wood packing in sometimes and coal Neil. Pack what we need is so true.  Big thanks from me to you, and all who make the effort to keep bothies useable.   Appreciate it.    

Martin Rye said...

Packability is a great point David.  Take Caldera cone stoves with a caddy.  The extra bulk is annoying.  Better the ones where the cone fits in the pot itself.  Not a lot of weight saved, but space saved.  Matters if your using a smaller pack for example.  
A lot of affordable, light and god kit is packable with a bit effort and thought.  Don't roll the bulky sleeping mat up.  Fold it, and put down the pack back.  Folks should play around with packing kit - I always say its surprising how kit will fit.  But adding that need, into buying kit is good thinking and thanks David. 

GeoffC said...

A sensible and thorough post on the subject, well done
The SUL hikers may have jolted us into thinking more seriously about weight, which is a good thing, but beyond that it's just getting boring these days. Some discussions on the subject are more like a pissing contest to see who can come up with the lowest headline figures for base weight, pack size etc., which are almost always contrived figures to make them look cool or hard, or to garner respect as someone at the cutting edge. I've mentioned before that I don't believe any quoted pack weights unless they are completely itemized in detail (and I don't always believe them even then), people are economical with the truth in these matters!. I'm not fond of any kind of 'rule' for weights, there are other important factors as you say.
Many people are far too obsessed with kit, some trip reports sound more like a testing expedition for new gear (of which there is always at least one new item) than a backpack to enjoy the wilderness our country has to offer.
The cost is important for many nowadays, but for me, there have only (ever) been two reasons to replace anything: 1) when the current item has failed or 2) when another item offers a very significant improvement in performance and/or weight or volume (e.g. NeoAir). That's not often. My current sleeping bag for most of the year is 17 years old, base layers are 12 years old, windshell 18 years old... The only two items I really think about now are footwear and rucksacks.

Camera gear should NOT be in the gear list. Anything that is not related to the walking or camping should be excluded, otherwise any quoted weight is meaningless in the context of comparing backpacking loads (especially for keen photographers with DSLRs, lenses etc.). Water should also be excluded - it varies enormously depending on the location and bears no relation to your 'lightweight level'.
I publish my itemized base weights and total weights for different seasons purely as an illustration to give beginners a guide to think about. They define my level of satisfaction. I'm happy with those and they won't get significantly  lower now regardless of what new gear comes out.

Martin Rye said...

Challenging points there Geoff.  I do include camera kit on my list and they are true.  Then I include kit list as a discusion point on the blog and not a brag.  

I think you are on track.  For me the kit changes are done, more or less.  I have gone to quilts, single skin shelters etc. 

Your point:- "a very significant improvement in performance and/or weight or volume" resonates with me.   

I also confess to still seeking the perfect rucksack.  Most of my other kit is going to serve me a long time.  Upgraded my sleeping bag for cold times ahead recently.  About same weight, but better.  A lot better! 

Thanks for that Geoff.  Wisdom from someone who has been there, and done it a lot more than most.  

Simon said...

I'm coming late to this debate and much of what has been said already covers what I think about the issues. First up, what a good article Martin, it's good to hear a viewpoint that recognises the important of both function AND form - or in other words, how a piece of kit meets a set of complex needs rather than simply measuring it's worth by how light  (or heavy) it might be. 

As you know, I had spent quite some time out on the hills carrying a very heavy load while working on the books that I had published in the last couple of years ... OK, lets be honest and come out with a figure here, at times I was carrying 25kg, a substantial amount of which was camera gear. Was I able to carry that weight? Yes. Was I able to cover great distances? No. Did I need to cover great distances? No. Did I enjoy carrying that weight? No. Was I comfortable and in a good frame of mind while sitting out bad or cold weather and waiting for the right light? Yes. Could I have carried a significantly lower weight? Yes, lower weight kit was available, but NO I couldn't afford to buy all that new kit. I did buy some new stuff and where I could I bought lighter gear, but as a general rule (and with all rules there are exceptions!) the lighter the kit, the greater the cost. I simply couldn't afford to buy some of the lightest gear on the market. However, even if I could have afforded to spend an extra £150 to knock a further 500g off the weight of my sleeping bag, the overall remaining weight was still substantial. So when I was looking for a new pack (which was an essential purchase) the load carrying ability of the pack was a key point to consider, I needed a big load carrier, and big load carriers don't come ultralight. The pack I did buy was the Osprey Aether 70L, which at 2.2kg (off the top of my head) is pretty light for a 70L pack but nowhere near the weight needed for a 3-for-3 setup. 

So at the end of that I'm left with some kit that is lighter than what I had, but not as light as it could have been ... it was also fit for the purpose, it met my needs at that point in time. Now my needs are different and as kit wears out and needs to be replaced I can choose the replacement kit using a different set of criteria, or perhaps it would be better to say a different balance of function, durability, weight and cost. In a few years time when I need to replace more kit that has worn out, my needs might have changed again. Needs change, they also vary from one person to another, not least because different people have different comfort thresholds, both physical and mental. There is no one-size-fits-all kit list; especially as conditions change from trip-to-trip and environment-to-environment and experience (or knowledge and skill) is needed to adapt to those conditions. That is why the blogging community is so valuable, it is vast collection of experience from people with different needs, different conditions and different results. It is also why bloggers should not be prescriptive about what gear people should carry. Everyone has to start somewhere and the whole process os one of learning and adapting ... and budgeting!

 

Martin Rye said...

That is a blog post on its own Simon and fantastic.  Your comment that: 
" bloggers should not be prescriptive "  I agree with completely.  Thanks for that Simon.  

steve behaeghel said...

Very very inspirational post!

Martin Rye said...

Thanks Steve and hope its helpful.   

Carl Mynott said...

Yep - a fair post indeed.

Martin Rye said...

Thanks Carl.  Appreciate it.  

Glen said...

Good thoughtful considerations.  One useful tool in figuring out  your personal comfort point can be to go much lighter than you normally would, then add back what you want to on the next trip.  Sometimes you find that the extra hassle or loss of margin is just not worth it, and sometimes you find that the freedom of so much less weight makes it hard to add kit back in.

Martin Rye said...

Thanks Glen.  I like the advice.   Good approach and one I shall try.   Appreciate the input on this.   

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