04 December, 2012

TGOC key challenges


I found it amusing reading blog posts digging at those on the The Great Outdoor Challenge  for writing about their kit selection, or reasons why they chose kit for it, or about their choice of kit at other times - when they themselves buy lots of kit on a regular basis and blog about it.  




Let's be honest: if you sit bad weather out in a bothy, or camp by a beach reading your Kindle all day, you won't finish the Challenge.  

So what are the challenges for a TGOC event in May that make kit choice matter?

Well, May can be a good weather month.  Last year's Challenge was a mix of snow, rain (torrential it seems one day) and sunshine.  

In 2011 I had rain, and snow one day.  It rained every day in varying amounts (torrential at times).  I had flooded burns making for hard crossings high up.  I had gale force, and at one point hurricane force, winds blowing trees down in front of me. Yes, I really noticed good weather in May in Scotland.

Back in 2007 I had rain for four days, with ok weather the rest and strong winds too.  The snow was only old and compact on the summits.  

So the challenging bits are this:

Time:  You have to get across in a set time. You can't sit out bad weather.  You get wet, you get on with it.  You might have a day to spare; but often it's a matter of 'go'.  There is no time for a day or two in a bothy, while waiting for better weather. 

Wind:  The wind is the threat to your shelter, or to you on the tops (or down in the glen with trees blowing down). Blown to your knees on a summit is the norm in the fine May weather.  Hence my last TGOC, I took a Trailstar for its wind shedding profile.  Only issue I had in the end was no door, which annoyed me - great shelter for the wind. Shangri-La 3 from Golite will be my shelter of choice next May on the TGOC.  Space; not bad in the wind - and a door.  Also, more useable space than a Trailstar. As for you and the wind - you make the call to go up, or stay low. 

Rain: Nothing to say apart from that it will rain.  Managing being comfy when out in rain is key. Waterproofs will fail.  

Snow:  Though it is not winter, there may still be snow, which will pose a risk on some high level routes and an ice axe and crampons might be needed, especially on some well used descent routes; but most avoid taking them.  

Cold: Sometimes very cold, but again it is not winter. It will be on a bad day -2. Use a down jacket with your sleeping bag on the worst nights.  Saying that, I needed while walking into a town down a glen to don my down jacket back in 2006 to keep warm.  It can be freezing at times. 

River crossings:  Rivers will be in spate (flood) and wide in places.  Don't cross them unless you are sure and ready to swim them if it goes wrong.  River crossings are in some ways the biggest risk on the Challenge.  

Sunburn:  It can get hot; you might need a bit of suncream for the afternoon after the snow clears.

Bugs:  Some people get bitten but I have had few issues with them.  Campsite selection helps.  I find May early still for high concentrations of midges, but they can be out early in places. So be warned if using single skin shelters. 

So my advice is when you read a blog where they sit bad weather out in a bothy, have no experience of time constraints on a TGOC walk and moan about kit selection made by those who do - ignore them and talk to those who do the Challenge.  In the same way as you should ignore a Challenge-only person when it's talk about kit for Scotland in the autumn and winter.  Talk to those who do know that season and its challenges. 

27 comments:

andyfromholmfirth said...

You can feel pretty vulnerable crossing Scotland on foot with the elements throwing it all at you.So its worth being canny with what you carry. Always be tried+tested stuff for me!It was the Ultimate Challenge when I did it in 1987. With youth on my side I paid little attention to gear yet I'm hoping to do a coast to coast across Scotland in honour of being 50 next year and I'm thinking hard about what will be in the rucksack now youth has deserted me!A timely blog and I shall follow your progress!

Andrew W said...

Spot on mate.

Take the right gear and get on with it.

It is a challenge.
But such a wonderful friendly event as well.

People are entitled to have opinions, entitled to air them, but not entitled to assume that is the sole opinion.

Off to work in Cumbria for the rest of the week, so I might be doing some late night hills.

Andrew W said...

Spot on mate.

Take the right gear and get on with it.

It is a challenge.
But such a wonderful friendly event as well.

People are entitled to have opinions, entitled to air them, but not entitled to assume that is the sole opinion.

Off to work in Cumbria for the rest of the week, so I might be doing some late night hills.

Martin Rye said...

Andy,

Back in your day it was 12 mountains or no cigar at the end. Well said. Age does focus the mind and kit choices somewhat. 50 is not so far off now for me. I reckon next coast-to-coast walks are non TGOC after May and the 2013 event. Plan England one, then Wales, another far North Scotland one.

Andy. Agree. It's an event and people miss that. Like minded and kind people sharing as they cross Scotland.

Alan Sloman said...

I've only recently come across Tracksterman but in general, I quite like the guy's style: Very straight talking with nice photos of lots of trips. He certainly seems to get out quite a bit.

Clicking through his May postings through the years does turn up a weird "anti TGO Challenge" sentiment, but I know quite a few bloggers who felt the same way, until they tried the event for themselves. Then they were hooked.

It takes all sorts to make the world and, apart from being nice about Hendrik Morkel, I'm pretty relaxed about whatever anyone says these days. Life's too short.

Perhaps we should invite Tracksterman to take part in a Challenge one year, to see if we can change his point of view. He seems a nice enough bloke.

How is our little German friend these days, by the way? Has he finished his A to Z video series yet?

:-)

Good luck with your Challenge preparation, Martin. Your route sounds like a good one.

Martin Rye said...

Pete I think is his name Alan. I am on the record as a fan of his blog. I like it - heck its fantastic. A short sharp take on the outdoors. Grumpy, insightful, and just damn good reading. Anyway, yes he is anti TGOC it seems. I feel he misses the event side and point. After all 350 people is a soon lost in the vast landscape of Scotland.

My post was also about what is the challenge. There is a varied amount of elements that make it so.

As for Hendrik. Well he is funded to make those vids, maybe he can do an update of why he is a year behind on them? He can always say something here without being edited as seems is his habit on comments with his blog. Also UL is all skill now. Yet videos so far are all kit. We wait to see is skill will make an appearance.

Jake Morrison said...

I'm really jealous of you guys. Maybe I can join someday. Its on my bucket list.

Martin Rye said...

Come over Jake. I will try to get Grant Hooked and you can sign up with him again. I will happily do a walk in the UK with you. You are always welcome.

Carl Mynott @Locomountaineer said...

Sound advice. Some stuff will let you down on a crossing. But research and reading good blogs will help with kit choices. I tend not to blog about gear detail (when I actually do blog) because so many others do it so well.

I like frank reviews and SHORT reviews. Honesty is a must.

As for TGO: I wouldn't have missed it for all the tea in China. 2014 could see a TGOC return for Mr Mynott.

Martin Rye said...

Get that application in Carl. Thanks as always. It's appreciated.

Terry Abraham said...

Hit the nail on the head in so many ways Martin. The words of a true outdoorsman.

I get out often as you know and the only interest I have in gear is how well will it perform and is it durable - and perhaps worth the money.

An overnighter or two is no hardship in the big scheme of things but folk shouldn't forget that to the newbies out there, it is a big deal. A comforting comment or suggestion and guide is what will spur their confidence on and head out into the hills. Whether the kit is lightweight or not.

Kit is just a tools to a means.

Alas, some forget how shite some kit can be when you're out in conditions on a journey...neah, adventure you describe. Trips like that sort not only the men out from the boys, but what kit works well and why.

I like lightweight gear. Of course, I rather a lighter pack than a tonne weight one. But I want kit that works and is comfortable. And often through such adventures you mention, you learn not only about yourself, your inner strength, dealing with morale, physical demands and goals etc but you soon learn what only you as a person do and don't like about kit.

So I guess Im very much the middle man on such arguments.

The TGO Challenge is exactly that. A challenge. A challenge not only for yourself but arguably to your skills, experience, personality and of course kit. And there's not many places where you can encounter such conditions the everyman can experience as you describe all in one day and perhaps day after day - Scotland.

Personally, I wouldn't use a single skin shelter. Maybe a bivvy ;) Ha! But it be a tent for sure. And a half decent one at that to deal with a mix of conditions. So for me personally it's always of interest to see what TGO Challengers think of their kit post walk - and not just the adventure they've endeavoured to complete.

Common sense talk as always, Martin.

afootinthehills said...

I'm far from a TGO Challenge 'basher' Martin, but I agree with almost everything Tracksterman says.

Martin Rye said...

Terry kit is just a means to an end. I will blog about kit and often don't review, or write about kit I have bought, or have. Light kit appeals but durability and more important function matter more. I always like chatting kit with you as you'r out so much and I know it has been used a lot and flaws found. My post is not a direct moan about another blog post but more a draw some points out like May is often a mixed bag weather wise and the Challenge is a backpacking event.

Scotland in May will be to each their own challenge as skill, fitness, determination all play in the end goal of the walk ahead. I am a single skin shelter user, I do light kit, I also do comfort. Ultimately I like more and more to talk planning, skill and critical evaluation of kit appeals too.

Cracking comment mate and adds to the chat.

Martin Rye said...

Gibson he would click off your blog it seems as your recent kit post is of gear laid out on the floor.

He makes a lot of points and some seem of note and have some interesting point's which merit discussion.

Sadly I see no comments nor it seems they are allowed. So it is in the end a soapbox. Sad as he can make some great point.

He does it seem get out a lot and thus his kit needs will be different that say the person planning a TGOC, but planning a TGOC and kit for that alone is not wrong;or pointless. Planning for a long distance walk and kit for it makes sense.

Also blogs are a personal thing, a 'my take on the outdoors'. Yes, I like it more when kit has been used before writing a review, but writing here is why I got this, along with the reasons behind the decision to buy can have value and interest - even if the photos are of the kit laid out on the lounge floor.

Blogs are social sharing and yes some use them to push their own outdoor aspirations, but again it's their blog and no one needs to read them.

In summary I don't agree with him on the TGOC assumptions on the post, nor at other times. I for one buy food in Scotland, spend money in the local economy and leave more than a turd in the hills.

As for what drives us to get kit (warm socks and a light pair of boots recently by the way and not on the blog you note) is a great discussion, but unless Tracksterman allows comments and debate we cant have it with him. I expect he is an insightful, knowledgeable and very decent person who would make a for a fine night talking with over a wee dram in a bothy sitting by the fire.

Gordon Green said...

My choice of gear has been refined over many years of trial and many errors.

My choice of gear has been through the obsessive to the logical.

The logical choice is gear that I know will perform in any and all conditions.

When it comes to the TGO, I have read negative comments in the past about the TGO - it took me ages to realise that it wasn't some elitist venture.

If anyone wants to comment - it's up to them. Best to go on the TGOC and then criticise it.

My gear for the TGO, and throughout the year, has changed very little over the last few years.

My prime reason for chosing any gear - comfort .... in any conditions.

Martin Rye said...

Obsessive to the logical is me Gordon. I am kinda happy kit wise these days. Odd upgrade on clothing and the like.

Shelter wise I realise I like single skin pyramids most. Door is a must. Any changes are about the best option on that. SL3 seems to tick the boxes well right now.

I agree comfort is key in any conditions.

Also I did long walks like you in Scotland long before theTGOC but now see it as such a great meeting with others. Not elitist, but a meeting of those who are just seeking to enjoy the outdoors and share with others. Knock it after doing it. Not before.

Thanks for that.

afootinthehills said...

Hi Martin

Yes, he would click off my blog for the reasons you give, but I made it clear that I regard the Akka as a 'town and country walks' type of jacket, not one I'd use on the hills. I don't see the point of showing it 'in use' in Perth, for example.

Tracksterman does generalise a fair bit (I did too in my comment!) and seems to be very anti-TGOC, which I’m not. I can’t understand what there is to be ‘anti’ about really.

I think what he was questioning in his most recent post was the credibility of gear reviews based on a crossing, or even several. That said, he does sound rather grumpy and I wouldn’t want to come across like that!

Alan R said...

I don’t see any point in criticising any outdoor blog. If you don’t like something, move on, no need to criticise , it’s just a difference of opinion in the end.
We are entitled to our own opinion.
Gear is worthy of mention. It’s cheaper to read about a piece of kit from someone who has used it and so passing on the info could save the reader money.
I don’t mind reading first impressions either. Any info is better than none.
Why folks feel they have to have a go at the TGO chally is beyond me. Jealousy maybe.

Martin Rye said...

I am at a lose Alan to why to.? TGOC is an event. One that builds friendship and community. A fine event and hope your on it sometime.

Alan R said...

I need to build Sheila's confidence in adversity. It's a bit of a catch 22. i don't want to put her into adverse situations but there is a need to handle it if it happens.
She can do the mileage and the carrying but as yet i am not confident enough to put her into a situation where she ends up hating walking.
Yes, i could do it alone but i want to share it and the elation of the last yard.

Martin Rye said...

Do a section with her. Low level. Nice bit of tent space for wet kit to dry out in, and a bothy night. See how it goes.

Martin Rye said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alan R said...

Thanks Martin,
She is confident and has done quite a lot of walking but not 2 weeks and not backpacking in wintery conditions. She has camped down to -7 but only ever backpacked for a week.
She did the odd bothy night on the Southern uplands so she knows what to expect. But putting them all together is a step she hasn't done. I am probably being over protective.I will push her a bit this year so that hopefully next year she will not be so nervous about it. My plan is to get a backpack trip in at least 1 per month on average.

Keith / Fozzie said...

Having signed up for the TGO Challenge this year, and not a regular (shamefully) to Scotland, I'm munching on as much 'Scottish in May' info as I can muster.
I was there middle of May in 2011 and bloody hell, the weather was fantastic, almost to the point that I thought I had made a wrong turn and headed south after Glasgow.
I am aware it's unpredictable, it's that no man’s land between Winter and Spring still and I agree as much as gear is starting to bore me these days, I am scanning through the blogs and gleaning from the locals.
I'm taking my tried kit that I know works but will be taking the MLD Trailstar, essentially for the space, ability to withstand the wind and basically just to give it a good test for the blog. The only thing that concerns me is whether the midges do indeed decide not just to come out and play, but right royally piss me off. I may get some bug netting . . .
A sweet blog post resulting in some good discussion.

Martin Rye said...

Keith, I don't miss my Trailstar but say it's the best shelter I have ever used in the wind. I used it on the 2011 Challenge and superb. But there is always a but. My but is MLD have too big a Catenary-Cut and I found the Trailstar a draughty old shelter and cold without a bivy at times. I also realised I like a door a lot and that mattered a lot on a trip with rain every day. Just shut the door and sod the weather.

Bug wise yes have a backup but I have had little issues with midges in May but you never know.

Some more TGO stuff I wrote for planning:

http://www.summitandvalley.com/2011/03/tgo-challenge-kit-planning.html

http://www.summitandvalley.com/2011/10/problems-with-foul-weather-alternatives.html

http://www.summitandvalley.com/2011/02/planning-my-route.html

http://www.summitandvalley.com/2012/12/the-great-outdoors-2013-planning.html

With your skill I doubt you'll have any issues.

Say hi if we meet. Torridon Start for me. All the best with the planning.


Keith / Fozzie said...

Martin,
Shit, I only just saw you replied to my post with all that info. Just wanted to say thanks, especially the route planning and the fact you have completed the TGO before, didn't want to come across as ungrateful!
Perhaps, ticking the 'Email follow up comments' would have been wise . . .
~ Fozzie

Martin Rye said...

Keith no worries. Here to help. Get planning.

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